“I Just Made It Up as I Went Along”: ABC Producer Gab Burke on Launching Your Health Podcast

“I Just Made It Up as I Went Along”: ABC Producer Gab Burke on Launching Your Health Podcast

Are you putting in the effort to grow your podcast but still not seeing the results you hoped for?

I’m Jamie Brooke, Head Podcast Producer at Brave Moon Podcasts and host of Fearless Podcasting. In this episode (and article!), I’m joined once again by the incredible

Gab Burke, Senior Podcast Producer at ABC.

Together, we explore how to grow your podcast organically by focusing on storytelling, value, and connection not vanity metrics.

Gab shares practical strategies to help you build authentic partnerships, engage your audience, and create content that feels personal and powerful. We talk about why your listener should always be the hero of your story, how to hook your audience in the first 10 seconds, and why overproduced intros are out.

Whether you’re a health and fitness podcaster or a purpose-driven creator, this episode will help you sharpen your focus, strengthen your message, and build a show that actually stands out.

In this episode, we talk about...

• Building Authentic Connections: Not every collaboration or guest appearance will grow your podcast and that’s okay. In this episode, we explore why genuine partnerships built on shared values and mutual audience benefit will always outperform surface-level “visibility” plays. Instead of chasing follower counts or paid promos, we dig into how to create high-value experiences that make your listeners feel seen, supported, and part of something real.

  
  

• Turning your audience into advocates: Your community is your greatest marketing tool. Gab and I talk about how to nurture your early supporters even if they’re just friends, family, or that one superfan who messages you every week into powerful advocates for your show. We discuss how organic engagement, simple acts of value, and consistent storytelling can transform casual listeners into raving fans who share your podcast because they believe in what you’re building.

  
  

• Capturing attention fast: The first 15 seconds of your podcast matter more than ever. We unpack how to hook your audience with storytelling and substance. You’ll learn why getting straight to the “gold” keeps listeners engaged, builds trust faster, and makes your podcast stand out in a world competing with Netflix, YouTube, and every scrollable distraction out there.

Transcribed Podcast Episode

Gab Burke:

Tell a story straight away. And the story has to be directly linked to the transformation and the value that you're offering in this week's episode or in this particular episode. Even if you just pressed record and said, five years ago, I was at the lowest point of my life and I didn't know who to turn to. And you just start telling a story. People are in. They don't care who you are. They don't need to know you. They don't need to have. built trust with you, you just start telling them a story.

It's amazing how much humans will just react to a really good story, not coaching. You're not, here's my opinion. It's just storytelling at its finest. People will sit and they will start to engage with you. And then from your story, then you say, here's what happened. Here's why it's important to you. Here's how I'm going to change your life. And then you proceed to change their life as quickly as you can.

Jamie Brooke:

Welcome to Fearless Podcasting. I'm so excited to be back in your ears. I have with me a very special guest. I can't believe that we got her to come on the show, but here she is. It is Gab Burke. She comes from ABC. She is a podcast We met on LinkedIn, which is an amazing platform to find your people. And here we are a couple months later after I've clearly like fully stalked her on her LinkedIn and her website and all the things. But Gab, welcome so much to the show.

Gab Burke:

Jamie, thank you so much. And yeah, it was so exciting to make that connection on LinkedIn and then book a time just to chat. And then you never know what those conversations going to be like. But the moment you popped up on my screen and started talking, I felt like I'd known you for years. So I'm so stoked that we made this connection.

Jamie Brooke:

Well, I'm so glad that you're here. And so we are going to just dig into your brain as much as we can right now. So I would really just first love to start. mean, obviously I've done a lot of stalking, but my listener has not, my viewer has not. So could you just share a little bit about how you became a podcast producer at ABC.

Gab Burke:

Yeah. So about 15 years ago, I actually started out in community radio because the guy I was dating at the time was in a band and they needed help getting gigs and publicity. And I was like, I can help. And then I thought, why don't I go to a community radio station? They play music all the time. And that might be a way to get into the music scene and see who's around and make contacts. And in doing that, I was presenting a mid-dawn shift, you know, 2am to 6am once a week volunteering and met some incredible people, but also found out that I really loved radio and I really loved broadcasting.

And so from there, I moved into our national music network here, which is called Triple J, which is kind of like college radio in the States and, you know, playing lots of alternative music. And I started presenting on that radio station. And then I realized that I really love stories and I went back to uni and studied journalism. And so I got into radio producing.

And from there, it was really at the point where radio we're sort of converging with podcasting and we were starting to put audio on demand. so I just naturally was moving in this podcasting direction. And then I started working for a radio station here, a music station that we have called Double J, which is sort of like the cooler older sister to Triple J, still alternative music, but you know, think like more like Nirvana, Pearl Jam vibes.

You know, it's for people who grew up in the nineties and early noughties. And I started working on a music history program here and that came with a podcast and I had no idea how to make a podcast. And I literally was just making it up as I went along. And when I started on the show, that podcast was getting a couple of hundred listens a week. then within a month, it was, I'd boosted it up to 5,000 and basically it just kept growing from there. And then I made a documentary podcast series about a music festival that we used to have here called The Big Day Out. Now this was iconic, kind of like Lollapalooza.

And I made this podcast series about this really beloved festival, which, rose to meteoric heights and then totally crashed and burned. So was like an incredible story to begin with. Also it was like a rite of passage for young people in Australia. So it kind of automatically had that heart factor to it.

And I was hoping for, maybe 10,000 listeners an episode within a week. was like 50,000. And then over its lifetime, it's done millions because people keep going back in. discovering it because it's evergreen content, but also people keep going back and re-listening to it because they love it so much and I always get comments from people who've listened to that series And it's so beautiful to hear.

And I don't mean to say that to sound really up myself, but I genuinely did not know what I was doing. I just made it up as I went along. And since then, you know, I'm currently working on a podcast called Take Five, famous people talk about the music that changed their life.

We've just had Kevin Bacon on, we had a Spice Girl on the other week. So it's really fun, beautiful, heartfelt content I've just kind of one foot in front of the other with podcasting, figured stuff out, experimented, tried stuff out, and I've done that for 15 years. So I feel like now I can confidently say I know a thing or two about podcasting.

Jamie Brooke:

I love your story. And I think what's really interesting to me is that you came into podcasting through another one of your passions, which is music. And I can definitely relate on that. Music is one of my first passions. used to be the friend in high school that would burn CDs for everybody. So I'd like make the playlist.

Yes, every birthday, every Christmas, But I think that's really beautiful that you found that connection between, your love of music and radio. And then you turn that into podcasting. And I think that's the story of a lot of people that are getting into podcasting as well, whether you are a podcast producer like the two of us or you're thinking about starting your own podcast or you are producing your own podcast, editing your own podcast, is that you often find podcasting through something else, right? you have your passion and then you think, well, how am I gonna market this? How am I gonna get this out there? And podcasting is such a great way. to create that evergreen marketing and to create that deeper story. But I really feel like we just need to ask you really quickly, who are your favorite bands.

Gab Burke:

That's a hard one. Honestly, I am a Beastie Boys fan for life. I think that's one of my all-time greatest bands. You know, we have this thing when you start at Triple J in Australia, in the very first all-staff meeting, you have to introduce yourself and you say, you know, where you've come from, like where you were born or where you've come from, what your first job was, what your worst job was, and what was the first ever CD, or I suppose, you know, now would be download. that you paid for with your own money.

And it's amazing the collection of, you know, like the smash hits records and like top of the pops and stuff that like, you know, people who are now at this point in their career where like they're working somewhere really cool, but their first CD was like the most pop you could possibly imagine. But actually the first CD that I bought with my own money was Rage Against the Machine.

And I just, I love, I love that band. and I think also I'm a sucker for Phoenix, Florence and the Machine. I mean, there's, yeah, there's, there's it's an eclectic mix. There's, definitely like some, some big nineties, rock and hip hop heavyweights in my collection, but there's also lots of naughties indie, indie rock as well. I really got into, into that vibe. Franz Ferdinand, the Cooke's, the Killers, like that, that kind of, that vibe as well.

Jamie Brooke:

Awesome. Yeah, very eclectic. I love it. And I'm sure that a lot of the health, fitness and wellness people that are listening today can relate to a lot of those bands as can I.

Gab Burke:

Favorite ever running songs is Modest Mouse. I can't remember the name of the song, but it's, right, all ready, we're all full on. Yeah. And I literally run up the hill to that song. I'm like, that's the song that gets me up the hill. Music and exercise for me are intrinsically aligned. Like I literally can't exercise or can't keep going. Can't keep doing a workout unless I've got music to to spare me on.

Jamie Brooke:

You're literally, this is music to my ears. You would not believe, I have a song that I play every single day when I'm warming up at the gym and I have to play it or else it just, I don't know, it just doesn't feel right. Like I'm just not warmed up the proper way that I should be warmed up. I wonder if the listener or viewer can relate to us on that.

Gab Burke:

I love it, she's getting in the zone, yes! song? What's your warm-up song?

Jamie Brooke:

Okay, so you're gonna laugh because it's so nuanced and weird and different, but it is actually, it's been pretty strong in my playlist and my warmups for the past. I think it's been probably three or four years now, and it's the theme song from Planet Earth.

Gab Burke:

Hey, no, I'm not going to knock it. I got a text message a little while back from my brother he was like, I've just gone out for a run and I've gone running to the Mandalorian soundtrack. And I got to tell you, I don't think I've ever run so dramatically and just felt like I'm a superhero.

Jamie Brooke:

Well, think about getting back on topic. Today, we are really gonna be diving into nailing your podcast concept. So when you first are thinking about launching your podcast and you have all these ideas and you're thinking, I'm just gonna talk to everybody about everything because I'm a multi-passionate. I love so many things. So first of all, would you recommend that? And if not, what would you recommend instead?

Gab Burke:

No, yeah, I think everyone has an idea for wanting to do a podcast or people often will say, you should do a podcast or especially if you've got a business, it's like, it's a no brainer. Everyone's got a podcast for their business. And it's true. It's such a powerful medium. It's a brilliant way to, gain trust from your ideal audience, your ideal clients.

It's a brilliant way for them to get to know you. And often clients that I work with who have podcasts that are part of their business will say to me when a complete stranger will book with them and they'll say, Hey, yeah, I loved what you said on that episode about X. they're like, okay.

And so, you know, even if you've got a podcast where you don't think it's really doing huge numbers, maybe a couple of hundred, maybe a couple of thousand, whatever. And you're like, my podcast isn't doing very well, but these people are still getting new clients based off this medium which allows people to really get to know you and trust you and get a sense of how it would be to work with you or buy from you or, whatever it is that your, your thing is.

But no, I would not recommend just launching in without a plan because podcasting is a lot of work. I do this full time. Jamie, you do this full time. if you're doing this on top of a business, you're adding, if you want to do it well, practically a full time workload to what you're doing.

And so it's very, very important right from the outset to refine and refine and refine your idea. Make sure that that is rock solid. And I'll go into that a little bit in a second, but then also refine your process. And this is what Jamie does amazingly in her business, setting you up for success so that it is a simple, sustainable, repeatable method week in, week so that you're not spending hours and hours and hours coming up with ideas or trying to book people to talk to or editing hours and hours of tape or video footage or whatever. So that's the key is making sure that you've got all these sort of like foundation pillars in place first before you jump in.

We can get you going pretty quickly, but it's very important to think about a couple of things first. And so when I say really nail that idea, it's not enough just to say, I want to do a podcast because I want to do a podcast because I'm curious about what it would be like to have a show that I host and I turn on the mic and I just project what I want to say.

That's not enough. It's also not enough to say, I just want to talk to really interesting people. I just want to have really interesting conversations. Fine. You can do that any day of the week. What's missing in those two situations is that you're not thinking about who is this for and what do they need out of it? What is the value that I'm bringing? podcasting is all about community and the success of your podcast will be based on the community that you build. It can be really powerful and very profitable for you if you focus on that first.

So really think about who am I talking to? What value can I give them? What do they need from me? That's what your idea has to centre in. So then what does that look like? Is that conversations every week with interesting people who deliver really high value content to my ideal follower? Or is that me coaching or is that me sharing tips every single week? What does that actually look like? So say you decide that you sharing your expertise every week. who is my follower? Where are they listening to me? Or where are they watching me format? is very important for example, I work with a lady who has a sewing podcast and she's pivoted to video, but she's finding that the viewing numbers aren't really going off on YouTube.

And there's a number of factors that play into this. YouTube is a strategy in itself a lot of thought that needs to go into the editing and the, and the style of video content that you're putting out.

But one of the things that we came, we got back to when we're talking about this is, and the feedback that she gets from her audience is actually they're listening to this while they're sewing. So they put it on in the background while they're sitting at their sewing machine sewing. for them, the fact that it's on YouTube doesn't really matter.

Sure. They can stream it on their smart TV and that's fine. But if, if you're putting all this effort into a particular platform because you think it's going to grow for you and monetize, it still needs to be the right strategy for the person who needs your content. So always thinking about your listener or your viewer first, who are they and what do they actually need from you? If you start from that point, you're off to a very, very good start.

Jamie Brooke:

I love that so much and I know that we can unpack the video podcasting versus audio podcasting here ironically since this is the first video podcast I'm making in this podcast But I actually really want to dive into first what we're talking about here is we're talking about who is the listener and I think people get really confused example personal trainer they have clients that are older ladies that are looking to do some strength training for longevity.

They have younger guys that are looking to build muscle. They have, people in general that want to lose weight. So they have all these buckets and they say, well, wait, can't I just make my podcast for everybody? Like for every single client. So I would love to hear your thoughts on how do you actually find out your target audience? And then how are you okay with accepting the fact that you're not talking to every single person out there?

Gab Burke:

No one, like we're not for everyone. Yeah, we're absolutely not for everyone. And that is a good thing. You can really, really, really, really, really, really narrow your niche. Don't panic. There's probably still millions of people around the world in that niche, right? The beauty of podcasting is that it is something that can be accessed anywhere. So don't panic. Don't think that by thinking small, you're like cutting off this huge amount of, you know, clients or growth or money or whatever. It's not true.

The thing that happens, and I've seen it time and time again, is when you start to become a broad church and you try to be for everyone, you end up being for no one. your audience member is the hero of this story. You always have to make them the hero. It's actually not about us. It's not about the presenter. It's not about the business.

The hero of every single story is the person consuming your content or coming to your classes or buying your products. It's your audience. Your audience is the hero. So you have to make them the hero. And in order to do that, they have to see themselves in what you do. And you have to, the language that you use and the type of content that you cover on your podcast has to be exactly for that person. And the moment you try to water it down and be a little bit for everyone, people get lost.

I use this example on LinkedIn, Jamie, which I think we've spoken about before. There's like the bread analogy, right? something that I tell people before they even contemplate starting a podcast, before they even contemplate hitting record is I want you to go on a social media platform of your choice, one that has community groups. And I want you to actually search for the type of group that is your ideal listener or follower. And if you can find a group like that then you've got a niche.

You've niched down enough. there's a, if there's a community group that exists, whether it's like literally in real life, there's posters on, shop windows and stuff for these community groups, there's, there's physical meetups in real life or whether they're digital, virtual meetups, doesn't matter. So long as there's a group of people that exist that are exactly who you're trying to talk to, you have niched enough. And so what I mean by that is say you want to make a podcast about sourdough.

I want you to be able to go onto Facebook, for example, and find people who make sourdough in the southwest corner of America, or people who make sourdough in Sydney, but in the inner west suburbs of Sydney, or people who make sourdough who aren't very confident at cooking and who've never made sourdough before. If you can find those types of groups, and usually different groups have given themselves funny names to really identify exactly who they are, then you've niched enough.

Not niching would be going, I make sourdough, that's my business. My podcast is going to be about sourdough, mainly sort of, but I'm also going to throw in a little bit of baking. And one week it might be like, how do you nail risotto? And the other week it'll be some muffins. And then occasionally we'll get back to sourdough. But it all comes under the banner of baking because I really just want to capture everyone who loves making food at home. The one week, you know, the sourdough people are going to come for the sourdough episode.

Next week, they're going to be turned off by the muffins episode because I don't care. The next week it's risotto. Like what? Like when is there going to be more sourdough content? And they've gone, right? They're never coming back. I know that this seems like a silly example, but I see it all the time when we go, ⁓ now this week I want to please these people and this week I want to talk to these people. How is that a strategy for getting people to come back every week if they can't see themselves every week or they can't find high value in your content every single week?

Because when you're with a podcast, you're not just competing with other podcasts. You're competing with every other form of content. And you're also competing with every other form of thing that somebody might use to spend, any other thing that somebody might choose to spend their time doing. So their hobbies, you know, catching up with family, looking after family, working. Like you're competing with all of those things.

And that's the key really, isn't it? Is that you're just competing with so much these days. So you really have to be clever about finding your person and talking directly to them. And I think that's also another point that's really useful is think about your audience as one person and always talk to that one person. You might end up having hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands, millions in your audience. That's fine. But if you continue to speak as if you're talking to one person and you're just wanting to give high value to that one person, I feel like you conquered wrong.

Jamie Brooke:

Yeah, so it would seem like a perfect opportunity for someone that's listening that has a business, that has clients. What if you just picked out your favorite client and said, I'm gonna speak to this particular client. And do you think that would be a good idea?

Gab Burke:

Think if you want to look at, especially for business, it's hard, especially for fitness businesses when your clientele might be very broad. I think you probably would be smart in finding the areas for opportunity for your business. So think about the types of clients that you're really starting to get more of. That might be the opportunity for your podcast. And also again, think about the audience.

You know, if you're trying to attract busy mum, for example, then I think that's a great idea. And I think you'd want to keep your content short and sweet. And I think you'd want of the episode within 20 to 30 seconds. And I think you want to deliver gold. And then I think you want to get out of there as soon as you going to help that particular person.

Even, I mean, it can be different. Like you might have a particular business where your clients are all different types of people from all different walks of life, but they really love this one thing. And that's kind of the sourdough example, right? So maybe it's a particular type of exercise that they really love to do, or if it's a particular type of self care that they really get into. And like they can be old, young, employed, unemployed, like whatever, it doesn't really matter, but all these people love this particular type of thing. So that's still fine.

If you're offering something that's really unique and this particular type of person loves it, it doesn't matter if that particular person could look or sound very different across a cross section. But it's still really about just doing one thing and doing it really, really well.

I think if you're really stuck with with niching and figuring out what your idea is and what your angle is and who you're for and and what high value content they need from you, I think that's the time when someone like Jamie or someone like myself can actually go can ask some more pointed questions to kind of really show you the way forward because. And I do this quite a bit. I do like podcast clarity calls and often p eople come into them going, don't really know what a clarity call is.

And then at end of it, one client last week was like, my God, I know exactly why you call it a clarity call. I'm so clear now on what I need to do. But sometimes it does take somebody else outside of your head and outside of your business and outside of your world to look at it with fresh eyes and go, here's where I think the opportunity lies to you or here's where I think the gold is that you maybe can't see as well yourself.

Jamie Brooke:

I'm hearing you say is There's not just a black-and-white example of what your target audience is going to be sometimes to your point They aren't going to look the exact same on the outside. They're not gonna have all of the same You know demographics, but they are going to have a common interest that can be a niche versus really thinking about your target audience as being a specific demographic, well that's also considered a niche as long as you're finding that interest point. So I heard what you said also about what could be a type of exercise that would work for a target audience. So yeah, so really interesting things that you just played around with there.

And to your point, When you're in it, when you're so excited about a podcast, when you're thinking about starting a podcast, sometimes you just can't see it yourself, right? Like you can't see it. You need a third party to just step in, hear your concepts, hear your ideas, and then clarify in a clarity call about how that looks.

I really want to understand, so once you've nailed that niche, you've really nailed that concept of your podcast, I want to know how do you capture your audience? How do you nail next step so that one, that your target audience is finding you, and two, they keep listening?

Gab Burke:

Yes, so this is a big the same as any other approach to growing your business, right? You usually have to get out in the world, start talking to people, start making connections, start trying to grow that way. It's a very grassroots type of thing. If you have an email list, that's a very good place to start. If you have a social media following of any kind, it doesn't have to be big.

You just want to start letting people know that this is starting to happen. So I'm working with a client in New Jersey at the moment. This is her first podcast. She doesn't have any media background or anything, no business even. And she doesn't have a huge social media following. She just has the following that most of us have, just friends and family on social media, know, people through networks and whatever.

And so what she's done is she's just spent a couple of months joining some of those Facebook groups that have her ideal follower, starting to make connections and talking to people that way and making new friends and mentioning to them that she's going to start a podcast soon. And then offered them an email signup and they've started to sign up. And she then has gone on to launch her first episode. And before she even launched, she had 20 signups to her podcast.

And that's now she's up to episode two and you know, we've had more signups and, and when she's gotten to work and she's heard her colleagues talking about it, other colleagues are like, hang on, how did I not know about this? And they're like, well, join the email list, dude. And so then she's got people signing it. That's literally the, that's literally how it starts.

And so long as then you're really delivering excellent content for a particular type of person and you're doing that consistently and you're talking to them as if they're one person, then it will grow. But it's about managing expectations. I mean, look, if you've got a huge email list, amazing. If you've got a huge social media following, amazing. Tell all of those people in the weeks leading up to launching, tell them that you're starting to do it. Get them onto an email, sign up to say, sign up for the updates on the podcast. follow my socials. I'll be, you know, posting updates, all that kind of thing. Get ready.

Poster teaser, all that kind of stuff, like, you know, get the hype or whatever. But then it's literally just about, you know, making connections. It's that grassroots. It's that, do know I've got a podcast? And just letting people know as much as you can. I know it sounds like, I'm going to have to say the same thing a thousand times. And people will be like, shut up, talking about the fact that you've got a podcast. They won't.

The thing that sticks is repetition. so the more that you can say it and be consistent that you've got it, you've got a podcast, you've got a podcast, it's a podcast. Eventually, six weeks from now, someone will go, yeah, he's got a podcast, or she's got a podcast, I might listen. The second thing I would say is invite your audience in as soon as you can.

Record a video, send it to me, record a voice memo, send it to me. Get people's permission, but use their stories in your show. start literally reading out comments, reviews, things that people are saying to you about your podcast, because it's that social proof that people are listening going, wow, this thing's really starting to take up. People are emailing. Maybe I could email. Okay, cool. I'm going to email too. Maybe I'm going to be on the podcast.

So that's the second thing that I would do. then down the line, you know, once you're kind of in it and you've been doing it for a few months, that's when you can start thinking about some strategic collaborations with other podcasts. You you could do episode shares where you give an episode to them, they give an episode to you or part of an episode or whatever, and you start doing those types of things and you get put in front of their audience and vice versa.

You have to be very careful with those to make sure that they're absolutely aligned with you. Don't just go for people who have a big social media following thinking that if you get on their platform that all of their millions of followers are going to come to you. That's not a strategy. And definitely don't pay for that because that's not a strategy. These partnerships still have to be very beautifully created and they still have to be very high value for your followers. Otherwise they're going to smell a rat immediately. They're going to be like, you're trying to pull the wool over my eyes. And now I don't feel very special anymore.

Gab Burke:

You still have to make your audience the hero of the story every step of the way.

Jamie Brooke:

You made me think about something a lot of my clients do actually struggle with getting voicemails, voice notes, you know, things like that. But I think what you're really talking about is at the very beginning, you actually have a crew when you're starting to podcast. That's your family and friends. They're probably not your target audience. They're probably not people that are going to listen to you past the first two episodes because it's just not their thing. And that's okay.

But they're actually gonna be your biggest support system at the very beginning because they're the ultimate ones that care about you and they want you to be successful with what you're doing. So I would highly recommend to just piggyback on Gab is saying, screenshot text messages from them. mean, blur out that it says it's from your mom, but I mean, and then.

Gab Burke:

Sometimes that plays into it well as well. Sometimes people love people's moms. like, that becomes part of the story, you know, then, or especially if you talk about your mom a lot on the show or whatever, then yeah, put mom in, put the screenshots.

Jamie Brooke:

I don't even think my mom's text messages would fit in the screenshot. They would have to, it would be like four pages. But yes, exactly, you're right. but those are the type of testimonials that you're going to have at the beginning. And maybe it doesn't feel quite right to you, but to Gab's point, this is your social proof and it's so important to get that information out there. So I'm so glad that you brought that up.

That's such good information. The other thing I thought about when you were talking was you had mentioned those social media groups, right? Like Facebook groups that you've probably found your niche, right? You've probably found a group. Why not join that group? more than likely there's rules against promoting your podcast straight out, but what's the harm in looking through other people's posts and then finding that one of your episodes is a solution to a question that's being asked in the group or something like that and just answer, provide the answer and then say, hey, if you want more information, here's an episode that I did. really if you just spend an hour a week jumping into that group and, answering some questions and helping people out.

They may be your biggest target audience yet. So that's a great idea. So thank you for bringing that up.

Gab Burke:

Absolutely. And the way to get around that moderation thing as well, add high value content as much as you can answer people's questions, um, jump in, be engaged and be helpful, be of value to other people.

Again, make them the hero. And then so long as they can click on your profile and see on your profile image or on your page or wherever you're sending them to, it says that the name of your show and you've got your branding there and the links, you know, click through to where you can listen or watch.

That does half of the work. It would be more valuable to approach it that way and have somebody go, hey, she's always got really cool stuff to say that's like really, really valuable. I'm going to click on her profile. she's got a podcast. I'm going to click on that. I'm going to have a listener. I'm going to watch it.

That's the organic way that you can get people, which would actually be better than you just spamming a community group with your link. Because most people go, I'm not listening. I'm not doing it. It's Don't, like don't try and sell me a thing. I don't care. I don't know you from a bar of soap.

But if you spent time in that group, adding value, building trust, getting people to know you, so long as you've got all your branding in place and making sure that it's very clear that you have a podcast or that you have a business and here is where you can find me do my thing, then that person is going to stay with you because they've actually made the effort to follow through. then so long as what you're offering on your podcast is high quality, then high value, they will stay.

And then they're going to tell all their friends about it. then any of their friends that are also in that group, they'll be like, "Hey, do you remember that person in the group who always posts about..."

Anyway, it turns out she's got a podcast and it's awesome. You should check it out. basically your community starts becoming your biggest advocate, especially once, as Jamie says, all the friends and family who are supporting you in the early days, they start to drop off after a few weeks because your podcast is not really for them. They don't need it. And they've done their thing. They stopped listening because it's not baked into their life.

And once that happens, that's when your true ideal followers start to pick up that baton and start to do the heavy lifting for you and start sharing and kind of bringing people into the community because what you're doing makes them feel so seen and like they so belong in this group that they need everybody else to be in there with them too.

Jamie Brooke:

Yes, we're talking about the marketing funnel. I love the marketing funnel. Get your most loyal clients to be your advocates. That is the way. So I love you mentioned about making sure that it's high quality and listener feels like the hero. So how do you, I've heard the stat that it's something like you have to capture someone's attention within the first two minutes. What do you recommend putting in the first two minutes of every episode?

Gab Burke:

Considering, depending on how you're listening or what platform you're listening to, it might also be that you've had to sit through 30 seconds or 60 seconds of ads before the actual content starts. So then it's even less than two minutes.

So what, yeah, and honestly, I would say to all my clients now, if you can hook in 10 to 15 seconds and then start delivering gold straight away, you've got a chance of keeping them. Because remember what I said before about there's so many different forms of content. You're competing with Disney and Netflix podcasts and YouTube and just sitting on my phone reading things, scrolling social media or just going for a walk or hanging out with my family. you're competing with all of those other ways that people could spend their time.

So you have to capture them quickly and you have to deliver gold upfront ASAP. So what I say is I actually don't think in this day and age with attention spans the way they are, I don't even think that you need a produced podcast intro with music and scripted.

You hear the ones, like, hey, I'm Gab and this is my podcast. And every week we talk about and that might go for 30 seconds to a minute. I've heard some that go for like three minutes. what I, and I hear this all the time, somebody's paid for this, this intro to be produced and then they're using it and they're chucking it up at the start of every single episode. And it's really highly produced, high quality, it has a particular sound. And then the music fades out.

And then the actual recording of the episode starts and that might be over Zoom or something else that's less high quality. it's automatically, there's a shift between super produced to then, okay, now the episode proper has started. And usually the host will say in that, hi, this is so and so, and this is my podcast and this is the podcast. And they sort of like do a, it's called a double introduction then they do this really long winded introduction to explain either the topic that they're going to talk about today, or they want to introduce the person that they're going to talk to, and that takes a long time.

And then literally one the other day was like three minutes before we got to, this was an interview podcast, three minutes before we even started to hear from the guest for the first time. It's too long and people don't know you yet, and they don't know the guest at all.

So the best way that you can start your podcast is you can say, hi, I'm Gab, welcome to Blah. And today we're going to talk about this and this is why it's going to change your life. And then just start talking about that. And that's why it's going to change your life. I don't think anymore there's any time for, you know, this is, Gab and Jamie, my God, yeah, we're so excited and here's all the reasons why you're to love it.

And we sort of riff on that for about a minute. And then we go, so Jamie, how's the week been? my God, how's your week been? And then we like, we'll talk about that for like, and it's like, well, hang on a second. You just, you got me. Like I've, you have to do so much work just to get them to hit play, right? They have to see the artwork or the thumbnail. They have to see the title. They have to see the description. They have to go, yes, I think maybe this is worth by time, I might give this a shot, I might press play and see what happens.

If you've then still captured them after this intro that's told them what your show is and who it's for and what you're gonna cover, and then you've told them the topic for today's discussion, and then you go, anyway, so now we're just have a chat for a couple of minutes about what we had for breakfast in the day that we've had and something funny that I saw that's completely unrelated to all the other things that were the selling points, that was the front door. people just go, nah, done, I'm out, right? And especially if you keep all the gold to like the end of the episode or halfway through the episode, If your headline was super hooky and really got them in, but then you don't deliver on that headline.

A, you lose trust and B, you will not make another, like you don't make a new follower from that person. They go, you lied to me. You told me it was going to be about this. And then you took too long to get to it. I'm very busy. So I don't think you need to worry about produced intros. think they take up too much time. They sound too different.

And unless you can replicate that audio quality or that visual quality every single week, forget about it. Then what I want you to do is just tell a story straight away. And the story has to be directly linked to the transformation and the value that you're offering in this week's episode or in this particular episode. Even if you just pressed record and said, five years ago, I was at the lowest point of my life and I didn't know who to turn to.

And you just start telling a story. People are in. They don't care who you are. They don't need to know you. They don't need to have built trust with you, you just start telling them a story. It's amazing how much humans will just react to a really good story. not coaching. You're not, here's my opinion. It's just storytelling at its finest. People will sit and they will start to engage with you. And then from your story, then you say, here's what happened. Here's why it's important to you. Here's how I'm going to change your life. And then you proceed to change their life as quickly as you can.

Jamie Brooke:

Okay, first of all, do you know that every single listener right now is critiquing this episode because you just nailed it. I literally have goosebumps. you're almost doing a game changer here we have been so stuck in what a podcast episode is, what the formula is for a podcast episode. And it's no longer working because we have, we're competing against Netflix.

We've put these into buckets right where YouTube is a certain look and podcasts are a certain look well guess what those are gonna start blending like crazy and to your point you have to get their attention so much quicker than I even realized I thought it was two minutes and you're totally spot-on that we need to do this so much faster.

Gab Burke:

I mean, you kind of naturally started with a story about how we met and everything as well. Like, you're a natural storyteller.

Yes, what was working in podcasting five years ago doesn't work. I think also when podcasting started, what happened was it came out of the advent of legacy media and the types of media that we were used to consuming, which was broadcast radio, broadcast television, and those often had very formulaic structures, intros, know, music, that kind of thing. And so when podcast was taking off, it's like, okay, well, it's got to mirror that, but be different.

And so we'll take some of these things, but we'll make it different in other ways. And that was awesome. And now it's going through another evolution where it's like converging with our lack of attention spans and you know, content overload. And that's why, you know, coming back to the point of the niche, that's why you will have so much more success if you really get really razor sharp focused on who you are talking to and don't make that.

You know, like millions of people, broadly speaking, like there can still be millions of people who are into your thing specifically, but the more specific you can be, the more cut through you will have because you will find that person because they're searching for you and then you deliver it. And then the faster you can deliver them the gold, they will come back to you week on week on week.

They will become your biggest advocates because each week you just keep delivering them high value. So what I want you to do when you're thinking about your podcast, whether you're currently doing one or whether you're thinking of starting one is I want you to find examples of other podcasts or content. It could be newsletters. It could be social media profiles. It could be businesses. It could be other podcasts TV shows or whatever. I want you to think of three to five examples where you are like, ride or die. You are rusted onto this person. You will listen to them for the rest of your life. You will watch them. You will consume every single thing of what they do.

And then I want you to analyze why it is that you can't get enough of this person. That, you know, once they post something on social media, you're also doing a quick Google search to see what else, you know, whether they're in the news or what else they're doing or whatever. I want you to think about examples of those people and really find the recipe for what it is that they're doing that you love so much and just do that for your audience because it won for you so it will win for your audience.

Jamie Brooke:

That's such great advice. I love that. I feel like I'm going to do that little trick as well. I'm going to go check out why I'm so obsessed with certain podcasters for sure. Quick question. listeners, they are going to have some sort of certification or title to them. So they're a nutritionist or they're a personal trainer they're going to have that urge to qualify themselves. And my question is a twofold. One, do listeners and viewers care about that at the beginning of an episode? Two, should they in fact qualify themselves with their degree and to what extent?

Gab Burke:

Mmm, that's a good one. Look, I would love to say, and the journalist in me is screaming to say, yeah, like, obviously we should all be like, you know, we need to be following true source, like good sources of content. But in reality, we know that that's not the case. In reality, we know that anyone can start a podcast and can start spouting all kinds of stuff how do you balance that? Certainly you have it in your episode notes.

You have it as a disclaimer at the bottom of every episode, especially if it's like health and fitness advice or holistic you also want to make sure that you're protected in case somebody goes and does something silly and then goes, I listened to this on this podcast and they told me this and I'm going to sue you, right? Highly unlikely, but also you just never know.

So I think if you have a disclaimer at the bottom of your episodes and that is I am this, this is my qualification and this show or this podcast is for entertainment purposes only or information purposes only.

There's plenty of examples of this online and government websites will often have good examples of this as well. I recommend that you go and see your medical practitioner before undertaking XYZ right. You can you can just put that disclaimer it's in writing so that you're safe and it's also just a good way to say who you are. But no I don't think you need to start with I am I'm Jamie and I'm X.

Because again, it comes back to that time factor thing, right? Where people go, I don't care, deliver what I need. Like, I don't care, I don't have time. So the way that I would do it, if it is something that's really important to your brand is I would blend that into the story. When I first started out coaching, or when I first started out in PT, or when I first started out in the thing that I realised, and make that kind of first statement.

Very hooky. Like, I came out of nutrition college and all the things that I thought I knew and had learned were absolute rubbish. Here's what I know for real after working with 500 people that's the way you qualify through that storytelling. That's going to hook more than making it seem like you're listing off a resume of qualifications, if that makes sense. Because you know it.

Like on people's about pages on their websites, like the people that tell a story, you're hooked, you're reading that story till the end, right? And you're like, I've a whole, the about page that no one's ever supposed to read. Like I've read the whole thing. But when somebody goes, I'm so and so, and I graduated from university and X and then I went to work for S. Then, and then I went to do this and then I went to do that. And I also did this or that. You just like start seeing letters and numbers and things and names and stuff. And you just, you're making my brain work too hard.

Jamie Brooke:

Great, that's such good advice. And I think it's even kind of shifted my brain a little bit about what I think about that as well. That yeah, it's about storytelling you know what? If you're intriguing someone with who you are, then they're gonna be the ones that are going to click on the show notes. They're gonna read more about you. They're gonna go to your about page on your website. That's what you want. You want them to engage more with you than beyond the podcast episode.

So Gab, you have a busy day. know a little snafu going on with a recording studio with an amazing musician. So I don't want to take up any more of your time, but I'm so thankful for you being here. If anyone that is listening would like to get in touch with you. I'm gonna put all of those things in the show notes, but I would just love to hear your favorite way is to be contacted.

Gab Burke:

Yeah, definitely. So you can find me on LinkedIn. Podcast with Gab is what my jam is at the moment. And also if you want, I do have a free resource as well that I can give to you, Jamie, that's there to be downloaded. It's just sort of how to grow your podcast in five steps. from the first port of call,

I would say if you just need some kind of need another ear or someone to kind of bounce ideas off. I love this and this is obviously my life and I do it day in day out. I mentioned before I do have a clarity call. It's free. It's 30 minutes. or just email me and ask some questions and we can kind of get you moving forward because there's nothing worse than having an idea and having a passion and taking on so much work and then it not being able to execute the way you wanted, or just never getting started because it seems too big and too overwhelming.

You've got something to say that is of high value to the person that you want to tell it to, if you have this kind of gut feeling that you can help more people around the world with what it is that you are here to do a podcast is a brilliant way to do that.

And Jamie and I want you to do it and we are here to help so please yeah reach out.

Jamie Brooke:

That's awesome. Yeah, I think, you know, the best podcast launch journey would be to involve both of us. Start with Gab, do your clarity call, do some strategy calls, which I think are just incredible, and then pop on over to me to get it implemented and executed. And I think you've just created the perfect launched podcast.

So you know, if I do say so humbly, humbly myself. Thank you so much for your time, Gab.

Gab Burke:

Thank you. Thank you for having me. Absolute pleasure. I love talking to you. I love talking podcasting and I can't wait to see what comes from these types of discussions.

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